Mr Kenner - thanks for the making the ad hominem re. Finkelstein. If you tackled the ball instead of the man you might be worth listening to. Still, it must be nice not having to supply evidence for any of your assertions (I liked the "anti-Israel fanatics" line too. Sophisticated, charitable and courageous - no beginning to your talents). Re. One-State solution. What are these "Jewish values" that guide the State of Israel? Would Jews happily accept a "Russian Orthodox" State that effectively relegated them to 2nd class citizens (or denied citizenship)? If you would, then I'll start listening to you re. Israel.

Rachael Corey didn't get up. http://www.rachelcorrie.org/ More and more folks in the U.S. are finding out the truth in spite of AIPAC spin doctors.

Using Norman Finklestein as a source on Israel is like using the BNP as a source for immigration and race relations. If that's all the anti-Israel fanatics have then may I say Game, Set, and Match to Melanie Phillips.

Assuming Melanie's professionalism trumps her partisanship and her intellect her emotions (just) her story is unsurprising. There is a war between those who understandably and with international backing want to maintain the integrity of Israel and those who can hardly be criticised for wanting to damage or even destroy Israel as it affects and has affected them however much we may deplore the unrealism of Arabs who have lived in refugee camps raising families of ten and more children. And in a war psy-ops and black propaganda is only to be expected. If Melanie puts the greatest blame on France 2 and its reporter she is right. It and he had no excuse for their major contribution to the slaughter which followed. The defenders of Israel, of which I am often one, who have written as such to contribute to this discussion, are, in too many cases, blind to the fact that Israel is not and is not likely to be seen 200 years from now as an exemplary state on any dimension, except courage and ingenuity, despite its achievements and those of so many of its citizens. Democratic government is always difficult to run efficiently and fairly and Israel's obstacles to a good, prosperous and peaceful life for all virtually its citizens are mind boggling, from the intra-Judaic religious differences, including formal and informal privileges, an emotional attachment to Jerusalem as Jewish which defies rationality and history and is derangingly powerful, understandable suspicion and wariness backing up the bad motives for encouraging settlers to destroy the viability of a future Palestinian state unless (miraculously) incorporated in it, and so on, and on and on. But what a disaster it was to settle the West Bank after the Six Day War. What a shame that risks, big risks, weren't taken. What a shame there isn't a Palestinian state with capital in East Jerusalem. Indeed what a shame Jerusalem isn't legally an international city in which two nations have their capitals. Just on one issue alone this could have been, and perhaps still could be, critical; because even the maddest of Ayatollahs in Iran are hardly likely to use nuclear weapons on a city which is a Muslim capital. It is true that nuclear strikes on Israel's coastal cities would be devastating, but the assured destruction of Iran in return would,almost certainly, be adequate deterrent. Of course it is unlikely that Iran, unless under a truly mad leader, would seek to annihilate Jerusalem under any circumstances, which leads to the question whether Iran's possible use of nuclear weapons is to be feared so much that direct action by Israel or the US could be justified on the ground that the benefit would outweigh the costs. That Iran might be able to supply terrorists with nuclear weapons is, perhaps, the worst case... but that again leads to the question of how much risk Israel is and should be prepared to run. 1 per cent chance of disaster, 5 per cent? And who is to make the fine judgments: even Israeli intelligence has made mamy big mistakes.

The One State Solution is still anti-semtitic for a very simple reason. By advocating this line, you are implying that of all nations, ONLY the Jews are not allowed to view themselves as a nation or to live in a nation-state guided by Jewish values. Only the Jews are barred. Then that means you are an anti-semite. Politically what you propose is handing over Israeli citizens to live alongside people who have been taught to hate and murder Jews for the last sixty or more years. This is like telling the Holocaust survivors to go make friends with the SS! Btselem are like many left-wing fellow-traveller groups (such as the ISM) in that they uncritically accept the accounts of the "oppressed" (read PalArabs) and automatically cast doubt on and assume the guilt of the "imperialists" (Israel and the West). They are a perfect manifestation of Masochistic Omnipitence Syndrome. Everytime there is an accusation of "massacred children", it turns out to be faked. Everytime the MSM repeat claims of Israeli airstrikes wiping out families taking picnics or such, these are either faked or it turns out that the "resistance" were responsible (usually through carelessness) - just look up how many "work accidents" have occured in Gaza in the last two years alone. No, the few Ultra-Orthodox Jews who oppose Israel's existence do so from a mystical religious perspective. They do not oppose Israel's existence because they might be anti-semitic: their position is not politically motivated. To those left-wingers still addicted to the poison of anti-semitic libel, go to Richard Landes' site Second Draft and WATCH the videos of the faked injuries, killings and funerals - including the Hamas funeral where the "corpse" gets up and walks away. You are being taken for fools by your enemies (who are not us).

Dorota, indeed it's getting too silly. Today's Anti-Zionism means opposing the existence of Israel on the grounds of "foreign colonization of Palestine by so-called 'Jews' which have no rights there and perform atrocities against Palestinians". This is Anti-Semitism of same kind that was propagated by the Inquisition, Ohrana and Nazis. Your "One State solution to the Israel/Palestine question" unavoidably means killing each and every Jew in the region – read Hamas/PLO inner materials on that, keep away from dubious interpretations by crooked ultraleft columnists and ignorant political activists.

Mel, there are Israeli Jews working for Betselem (together with Palestinians) but the information that comes from there is mostly a fake. Are you surprised? There were converted Jews who supported blood libel, does it make blood libel a truth? You just cannot know how many stories you mentioned here are simple fakes. Does it make your life easier to believe that Israeli soldiers murder children? Then you are the one who has a sick mind. Betselem produce unprofessional reports. Some of the "facts" you brought there were debunked by Dahuh-Halevy, but when caught by hand Betselem never respond and never correct their "reports". Putting children in the front lines is a fact observed many times. More then that: the PA TV broadcasts constantly short films that educate children to seek for "shahada". Look here: www.pmw.org.il . Al-Durra is a symbol because they make films depicting his happiness in Paradise, saying "come after me". They say to the kids "Look for death and life will be given to you", in these exact words that appeared on the screen in Arabic and English. By the way, PLO did it, not Hamas. So stop telling me about my mind, care about yours.

This is getting so silly I feel the need to intervene. Stefan Denis means Yakov Rabkin (not Yitzhak). Silverstein - what was Jacob Israel de Hahn? Self-described Anti-Zionist and spokesperson for Agudat Israel. Also opposed to those who would massacre Jews. So, err, an Anti-Zionist who surely was not an Anti-Semite (this innocent Jew was, however, murdered by Zionists (Jew killers?)). Case closed. As to groups that make accomadations with Zionism, it doesn't mean that they aren't anti-Zionist, anymore than a group living under a communist regime but fearing something worse might be grateful for the regime while deploring the political ideology. The point is not whether an Anti-Zionist is Jewish or not. It is whether an AZ must an AS. It simply does not follow that an AZ must be an AS - unless you empty both terms of content and use them for politically manipulative purposes. I would recommend against that lest such a ploy backfires. In sum, you haven't justified your position nor have you shown that ultra-Orthodox Jews like MK are necessarily anti-Semitic (do they advocate the massacre of Jews - don't think so - and nor do they support Arab terror groups that do). And even if you had, that would in no way help your major point that AZ=AS (or is a subset of the latter). One more thing - what about those people who advocate a peacefully achieved One State solution to the Israel/Palestine question. Are they necessarily anti-Semites? One can't retain the emotive power of the erm AS while watering it down to include anyone that happens to disagree with you about the question of Israel.

My point being that you wrote that ultra-orthodox Jews were Ant-Zionists. That's not an opinion, it’s stating an untruth. 99% of Charedim are not Anti-Zionists which can be verified by checking with the organisation of the union of Charedi Jews, namely Agudas Yisrael. Easier yet, go to your nearest Orthodox Jewish community and pick up a copy of Mishpacha magazine or Yaated Neeman newspaper and you will find more pro-Israel articles than most so called Zionist secular Israeli newspapers. Regarding anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism, it is my opinion that anyone who supports terrorist organisations such as Hizbollah, Hamas or Fatach who's goals are to murder Jews and destroy Israel, are clearly anti-Semites. That includes those who were born Jewish!

Dear Rodrigo, nope, it’s not a fake, Mel is short for my real name. How come you see a contradiction between names and views? I bet you didn’t score high in biology, otherwise you’d know that there is no coherence between population genetics and common sense. Unfortunately, we have way too many lemmings in our civilized and enlightened Western society, easy prey for the ‘good and evil’ propaganda, for colonialism and imperialism.